Monday, November 14, 2011

pornography and respect

I am compelled to write about a post on free thought blogs by Greta Christina. She is angry that she cannot do pornography and still be taken seriously as a female intellectual.

To which I say HA! Women aren't taken seriously to begin with. Participation in pornography (or not) is just makes it a tiny bit easier for sexist men to dismiss women. Women who want serious roles in society- like intellectuals or political candidates, are degraded based on their sexual worth OR lack of it. I will use my favorite example once again: Hillary Clinton and Sarah Palin- one was berated non-stop for being unattractive and lacking sexuality, the other (who never made porn) had porn and blow-up dolls made of her to ridicule her because of her perceived sexual worth. Dudes will make their own reel of pornography of you in their minds, and then blame you for the quality of it, no matter what choices you make as a woman. This is the meaning of being of the sex class- men assume women exist for sexual usage.

Greta acknowledges that in her post, but seems to be confused about the purpose of pornography from the users point of view. She peppers her post with assertions about pornography representing sexual freedom, but doesn't seem to examine it from the average pornography viewer's point of view. There are many more viewers of pornography than makers of it, so examining the practical impact of pornography means looking at viewers. The mainstream of pornography promotes a sexist and rape culture compatible view of sexuality, and the social benefit of such a system is exclusive to men.

A woman can think she is doing something transformative or feminist when she does pornography or stripping or burlesque or whateverthefuck, but the real-life impact of the act is always the same: men feel that their view of women has been confirmed. Sexual submission to male fantasies won't get men to rethink their sexism, it will only reinforce what they already believed about women in general. It is another painful illustration that intent isn't magic, and that no matter how much any woman wants pornography to mean something different, she cannot change an entire social order by participating in dominant social institutions while calling it something else. Other collectively shared social institutions work in a similar fashion; the idea that a piece of paper with specific markings is worth one dollar of spending power cannot be changed by any individual asserting otherwise.

I also find it off-putting that Greta's post doesn't discuss her privilege in being able to choose to be a sex worker or not. I often find that discussions about sex work that chiefly focus on sexual freedom and expression are from people who do not realize that the common sex worker isn't there because she prefers being a sex worker. She is usually there because someone made her into one via pimping, poverty, drug addiction, or abuse. It is impossible to separate words like pornography and prostitution from their practical impact on the majority of women within those systems. Trying to separate the words from the women who are harmed within the system disgusts me; it makes the reality prettier for men who want to believe that their pornography or prostitute consumption is morally acceptable. Any discussion of choosing to do sex work or not should come with a disclaimer of privilege in that regard, the same way that posts about race or sexism from privileged people (white people, men) should come with a disclaimer of their position in society. Most sex workers with the privilege to choose just lament the way that there is stigma attached to their careers (or hobby in this case), as if that is the most important issue to discuss instead of the slavery and abuse going on within the sex industry right now. It may be an important issue to discuss when, at a minimum, the majority of sex workers actually choose their profession. For now, using words like sex work, prostitution, pornography, etc without making any distinction between women forced into it as slaves and women like Greta makes it difficult to discuss coherently. I generally picture the common person within those systems when they are mentioned, but the great PR campaign by "sex positive" feminists means twisting the practical definition to mean someone who is statistically exceptional. It is bullshit. These words should conjure up the ugliness that they represent (99% of the time).

PZ myers made a post asking what is especially bad about being in porn, compared to other occupations. The assumption in that common question is puzzling to me- they seem to be saying that all work is exploitative, so why care? When really it points out a lot of problems with work within capitalist systems- there are alternatives to explore.

Anyway, he seems to think that it is like flipping burgers or any other occupation, but it isn't. For one thing, workers who are in pornography are not protected by OSHA and are routinely exposed to diseases. They are screened for them (as damage control) when prevention (via condoms and exposure limiting sexual practices) is easily available. Then there is the matter of the service provided- theft of services at any other job may be unpleasant, but it isn't rape. The documentary The Price of Pleasure (available on netflix instant download) also illustrates other differences between pornography and typical employment. Even if a woman isn't exposed to diseases she is often asked to do extremely uncomfortable things. Towards the end of a movie a woman on a pornography set who has been talked into ATM (ass to mouth) after hesitating initially walks of set to vomit. There isn't an equivalent in other lines of work; no one is coerced into tasting their own shit for money outside of pornography.

21 comments:

  1. Thank you! Excellent post as always.

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  2. Skeptifem said:

    1. "Women who want serious roles in society- like intellectuals or political candidates, are degraded based on their sexual worth OR lack of it."

    2. "The mainstream of pornography promotes a sexist and rape culture compatible view of sexuality, and the social benefit of such a system is exclusive to men."

    3. "... but the real-life impact of the act is always the same: men feel that their view of women has been confirmed."

    4. "... the common sex worker isn't there because she prefers being a sex worker. She is usually there because someone made her into one via pimping, poverty, drug addiction, or abuse."

    Do you have any actual data, research, or supportable statistical information to defend those claims? And clearly, I do not mean the strongly felt statements, opinions, and claims of gender feminists be they female, male, or otherwise defined.

    John Greg

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  3. ATM, how anyone could possibly be supportive of porn after reading that is beyond comprehension.

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  4. This a brilliant post, especially this part:

    "A woman can think she is doing something transformative or feminist when she does pornography or stripping or burlesque or whateverthefuck, but the real-life impact of the act is always the same: men feel that their view of women has been confirmed. Sexual submission to male fantasies won't get men to rethink their sexism, it will only reinforce what they already believed about women in general. It is another painful illustration that intent isn't magic, and that no matter how much any woman wants pornography to mean something different, she cannot change an entire social order by participating in dominant social institutions while calling it something else. Other collectively shared social institutions work in a similar fashion; the idea that a piece of paper with specific markings is worth one dollar of spending power cannot be changed by any individual asserting otherwise."

    This seems to be the crux of where sex-positives go wrong. They are out of touch with reality. People are free to think feminists' ideals are crazy, but the feminists do know what normal is. They know how the world works. The sex-positive point of view works in denial of reality. Sometimes it is actually ignorance, as in the case of some folks in BDSM communities who have effectively cut off extended contact with "vanilla" people.

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  5. Lemme guess, john greg- if I don't use a bunch of my time to demonstrate the obvious you will just have to keep on using porn (or possibly prostitutes), right? Why don't you go justify your own habit through research? I am not the one wanking to the suffering of women, and I am god damned sick of posting a bunch of links just for dudes to ignore that shit and post the same crap over and over again. When I post evidence (like I did painstakingly in the past) some douchenozzle always shows up to be like "evidence?" anyway. You have google, fucking use it if you are so interested (the ones asking usually AREN'T though). I'm not your elementary school teacher or your mom. Like twisty says on I Blame The Patriarchy, "Nothing wastes my time like a dude!"

    Thanks, everyone else.

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  6. I'm trying to wrap my brain around how a camera's On/Off switch makes all the difference between Greta enjoying empowerfulized sex and not having full sexual freedoms.

    If she likes having her breasts tied with ropes until they turn purple while two penises press in and out her vagina and a third penis goes in an out of her mouth with three men watch and call her cuntslutwhorebitch from the sidelines...is that unfulfilling, worthless sex to her for the lack of it being filmed and replayed on the internet?

    How very sad.

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  7. Skeptifem, you continue to fan the flames of hate and bolster your intellectual dishonesty by posting emotional misandrist rants devoid of evidence. Such ideological hatred needs to be supported by evidence, repeatedly and exhaustively, or it simply becomes rant, hate-filled rant.

    Cripes, you have even in the past argued the precise opposite of an intellectually honest person in that you have stated that you feel it is not up to you to provide evidence for your extraordinary claims; it is up to your readers to do your research for you; to back up your extraordinary claims for you; to provide the data to support your ongoing misandrist hyperbole and ideology.

    You have also claimed to have provided lots evidence supporting your thesis of the universal harm of porn, yet continue to fail to back up those claims with links to ... anything.

    Flame on woman, flame on.

    Carl Sagan once said:

    Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.

    But then I suppose Sagan, being male, was a sexist, misogynist, user of porn and prostitutes, right?

    John Greg

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  8. This has the feel of something thrown together in reaction (I don't mean that in any negative sense). My point is that you haven't had much time for any writing recently. Are you occupied with Occupy SLC? How about you write about that instead?

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  9. They teach kids how to research porn in elementary school now, skeptifem? I think you're leaving out a very important angle on this whole porn thing given this information.

    Think of the children!

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  10. LMFAO

    "Nothing wastes my time like a dude!" Thank you. Twisty by way of Skeptifem!

    Thanks for a good read, and thanks for making the point that many of the "sex-positive" sex worker activists are simply not accurate representations of sex workers as a demographic whole.

    I live in Manhattan, NYC, and regularly read the local free alternative paper, The Village Voice. One thing that always strikes me when I pick up the Voice is the pages of ads in the back: there are pages...and pages...and pages of ads for Asian incall bodyrub/massage parlors. I am not exaggerating. Dozens and dozens of ads.

    I always think to myself: "I wonder how many of those women have been trafficked, or are otherwise not working there voluntarily?"

    WHO KNOWS? The Police have better things to do, like kicking the protesters of Occupy Wall Street out of Liberty Square at 1 AM last night and confiscating all their personal property. I just got back from the "Re-Claim the Square" Rally myself--hot stuff.

    Keep up the good work, Skeptifem. Love your blog. It's a privilege to read.

    Miss Margo Adler
    New York, NY

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  11. Great post. I'm disappointed that PZ can't tell the difference between prostitution and "other occupations." It's just disingenuous to pretend that the tremendous social, physical, and psychological aspects of sex don't exist, or that we could ignore them in some contexts and celebrate them in others.

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  12. Brilliant--the post and the comment to John.

    The data is out there, John. If you care about women, you'll do your own homework. Or you could ask yourself why women would make all this up. Really, what do we stand to gain by inventing a patriarchy/rape culture? Why would we lie for so long and in such numbers?

    Or maybe we should all admit it's a joke, and that we really love ATM, and the puking afterward keeps us thin for our men? You'd believe that, would you? I hope not.

    What I still find difficult to believe is how defensive and silly some men can get when asked to consider that actual women are actually suffering actual pain and humiliation in porn. And all just because some men are too lazy to use their imaginations when they masturbate.

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  13. Great post, thanks as always. I've had this discussion time and time again, particularly stressing the negatives of objectification and the ultimate card they always try to play is the "evidence?" one. And I *always* get flustered and forget the burden of evidence is not necessarily on me; it's on those making the claim that people getting throat-fucked with a shit-slimed dick aren't being harmed.

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  15. I've been a sex workers' rights activist for over a decade and this shocks me: "I have literally never found a post from a sex worker who could freely leave that admitted how lucky she was in that regard."

    If that's true, then you simply haven't looked very hard. The distinction between choice, force, and economic coercion is integral to the sex workers' rights movement. It's hard to miss.

    Given the activism done around trafficking and providing assistance for people who want to leave the trade, the awareness of a privileged position for some is clear. I'm sorry if we don't state it every time we open our mouths.

    www.youtube.com/watch?v=0ct5K4-Y4AA

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  16. Thank you skeptifem. I read the thread at Pharyngula, hoping you'd be there. I don't blame you forgiving it a miss, it was stomach churningingly grotesque. Especially the commenters claiming they wouldn't mind their daughters doing porn. As you and commenters here have said, sexpos need to get a grip on reality. I liked one comment over there - so liberal it hurts. Reminded me of a similar sentiment I read somewhere - so open minded their brains have fallen out. For Sexpos there is no such thing as objective harm. Will sexy killing be their next line of defense, if the woman consents of course, no harm done if we give consent, is there? What's the big taboo ( for them) with death?

    The other thing that bothers me about the magical quality of consent, is the idea that what would be horrific to do children, is okay to do to adults (mostly women).

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  17. "Given the activism done around trafficking and providing assistance for people who want to leave the trade, the awareness of a privileged position for some is clear. I'm sorry if we don't state it every time we open our mouths."

    I was overstating when I said I never heard a sex worker say she could freely leave, sorry about that. You are correct, I will fix my post soon. The point is that for every person who can leave there are 10 or more who can't. It is a matter of priorities when issues are being discussed. It is the same way that the news focuses on how wrong it is for anyone poor to steal government assistance through fraudulent means (and sure, theft is wrong), while big corporate thefts of government money are never questioned or even called stealing. Everything has to be prioritized, and I don't understand prioritizing the problems of people like greta when her talking points could potentially worsen the apathy felt towards sex workers who aren't lucky enough to choose the work. It isn't that hard to say "I am privileged because of X" when discussing a matter that you are privileged in. I expect it from men, white people, and economically privileged people when talking about issues of sexism, racism, and classism (respectively). You say "sorry for not mentioning it every time" as if it gets mentioned that much at all on blogs that focus on sexual freedom or "sex positive" feminism. There is also the fact that opinion from sex positive bloggers are used by misogynist men to support extremely expoloitative practices within the sex industry, the kind of shit you would disagree with. It would be super if the social impact of arguments could be erased, but they can't.

    One of the comments I deleted was a graphic description of greta christina in a violent bdsm porn scenario. Another was some creeper interrogating me about where I work and live. It is a mistake to underestimate how ugly and horrible the people who pay for sex work are.

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  19. Isn't it funny how the claims made in pornography are considered a default position by you though? I mean they claim that women aren't coerced into pornography and prostitution, but the only evidence they offer is paid spokespersons and you believe it? It is like taking a fucking infomercial at face value. Even women like Jenna Jameson talk about coercion and mistreatment in their autobiographies; it isn't like that part of the industry is hidden or something. If it is such a great job why are women trafficked into it from other countries?

    I am planning a page in the future with the links to all the studies about the harms involved with prostitution and pornography so I can use a single link instead of chasing down a bunch of shit whenever a dude wants to have the obvious proven to him. I'll do that on my own time, thanks.

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  20. The above comment was a response to John Greg, who posted a lot of shit that clearly violated the comments policy. Get some basic education in womens studies (via sites like feminism 101, like I fucking linked to in my sidebar specifically for assholes like you), the part worth responding to was this:

    "No. When someone makes a statement claiming to be fact that statement needs to be backed up by data, and/or research, and/or some type of supporting evidence. That's how scepticism works; that's how logic works; that's how science works. Otherwise, anyone can make any kind of statement about anything and claim it to be true. That's just not a reasonable, meaningful, or useful way to proceed."

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  21. After reading Greta Christina's post, it seems to me like all the positive things she got out of her experience came from her having a lot of sex. The fact that it was filmed or staged and then sold as pornography doesn't seem to have had a lot to do with her enjoyment and her liberation. Basically, she would have got rid of her culturally learned shaming reflexes and her insecurities just with the sex. People got her free, not cameras and TV sets.

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