Thursday, October 28, 2010

Transphobia

I have been on the hunt for more feminist blogs to read during the past month or so, and outside of Rage Against The Manchine every blog I come across has some transphobic shit in it.

It breaks my heart. Most of the blogs refer to transpeople as "men" and ridicule them for daring to attempt to pass as women. Some of the women don't count themselves as feminists so much as separatists, but some do. Well known feminists like Germaine Greer and Mary Daly have made transphobic comments before, too.

These are women who know certain things- like that gender is largely a performance in our society, and that living with violence and discrimination is a painful part of every day life for women. Knowing those two things makes it very difficult to know where to start on critiquing transphobic feminists- it seems self explanatory that trans people have to perform femininity well because they are under a much greater threat of violence and discrimination if they do not. Trans people are such a low priority that lawyers can sell juries on the idea that being trans makes for provocation of violence. You can fire someone for being trans and it is completely legal most places. It is so far on the list that places fighting for gay rights in the workplace and housing don't bother to include trans people because they don't want to press their luck. It seems as though every group that trans people might find to include themselves in rejects them or downgrades their concerns, all while they face murder and assault and rape at astronomical rates and really need some fucking support. The fact that trans people make up a relatively small portion of the population makes it difficult as well- though gay rights groups have made a lot of progress with that same hurdle, so perhaps there is still some hope.

A lot of the anger from transphobic feminists is in the perception that these are men who choose to be trans somehow (I am primarily talking about mtf trans people because it is what these cis women take issue with most often). The tiniest amount of research into transsexualism reveals how far from the truth that idea is. Just like with gay people, it seems absurd that anyone would want to endure the social stigma and threat of violence that comes with being trans. It isn't something that people can will themselves out of- it is a matter of identity, which each of us has at their core. It is a consistent feature that the feelings of identifying with a different physical sex emerge in childhood and continue throughout life. I know this because I was once curious about transgender people, and instead of deciding what they were I went and read about it from researchers. In that time I also turned up information on what is now being called the transabled- they are a group of people who have the need to change their body in a fundamental way not related to gender. Commonly it means the wish to amputate a perfectly functional part, like a leg or a foot or a finger. They too feel this way for their whole lives, and feel relief upon getting the limb removed. Other phenomenon like phantom limb syndrome points to a part of the human mind which constructs a deeply meaningful picture of what our bodies *should* be. It seems to me like transsexual folks have the misfortune of having a misogynist society scrutinize their issue in a way a transabled person would not. I have no doubt that in a society free of gender roles and sexualized violence there would still be trans people, who would have more safe options about how to appear and act and speak.

Objections to being trans inclusive ring kinda hollow to me. All of them boil down to the same thing- women won't accept transwomen as authentic women. Some will say they don't want to include male bodied transwomen because of possible safety issues for cis women. If that was the end of it there wouldn't be much of a problem, because cis women could give trans women their own space and RESPECT for their own separate sexuality, but that isn't what happens. Cis women now use the gender binary against trans people in a way that reinforces misogynist ideas about what makes people female or male. Not only does it ignore that sex is a spectrum, but it also shows the hateful nature of these comments from ciswomen.


It never ceases to amaze me that some people can so totally get what is wrong with oppression of one sort, but not another. On the flip side, I recently watched Ed Wood's Glen or Glenda. It is an awful movie, one that was very daring for its time about cross dressing and transgender issues. The director obviously had these issues himself, and risked a lot in making the film. About ten minutes in the narrator talks about "less civilized cultures" and shows footage of a bunch of black people dancing and beating drums in cartoonish masks around a fire on a truly shitty set. I was fucking shocked. It seems like everyone has serious flaws in the ability to perceive wrongs perpetrated against other groups.

UPDATE: There has been a new reason to discriminate against transpeople that I have recently become aware of, and I want to add to this post rather than restating all the stuff in this post.

I Blame The Patriarchy has gone dude free as a policy. An inquisitive poster asked what trans people should do, and the usual shit storm surrounding trans people began. There is a conversation about if radical feminist sites like IBTP should include trans people in the discussions, if they are relevant, and if they can really contribute anything. A few arguments I see over and over:

The first argument is:
They are men. They grew up like males and had male privilege so they don't know what the oppression of women is about.

There isn't a one size fits all oppression of women. Where you grew up, who raised you, what race you are, how much you weigh, how much money you had, how much education you had access to, etc ALL affect the way that women experience oppression. The oppression facing white upper class academic women isn't going to be the same as the kind affecting lower class hispanic immigrant women. Its basic shit that everyone at IBTP knows about, and the intersection of privilege and oppression is often discussed there, but women aren't told to not talk about women's oppression because of how they experienced it.

The idea that the way society treats someone during childhood should be the criteria for real womanhood doesn't have much merit. I spent several years as a child being mistaken for a boy. I dressed that way to increase the frequency of being treated like a boy. It made the realization that I couldn't be one of the guys that much harder when it happened later in my life, but I sorta got a kick out of people thinking I was a boy and persisted with it for at least 3 years, maybe more, if I recall correctly. I was an uncover girl. It gave me a view into what boys, and society in general, thought about my real self from time to time. They didn't like me a whole lot. I couldn't be mistaken for a boy everywhere of course, so it wasn't a complete disguise. Trans people know they are trans from a very early age. They are undercover in a way that is a lot more difficult to deal with, because they cannot just take off a disguise and be accepted for their inside self the way that I could. Then there are people like David Reimer, who was raised as a girl after an accident destroyed most of his male genitalia as a child. The theory at the time was that sex identity could be changed and molded at the convenience of parents, but it didn't work out. David spent his whole childhood having femininity shoved down his throat and it did not take. He grew up and found out about his past and the reassignment surgery and immediately began trying to live as a man. Would David, who always felt that he was a man, be invited to participate in feminist discussions (like the ones on IBTP) by virtue of his childhood experiences? I sorta doubt that someone who is so into being a dude would be welcomed.

The point of going through the mix of sexist oppression isn't to try and equate any of them or to say what is the worst sort of oppression vs others, it is to say that there are a lot of lines being drawn to exclude trans people where they wouldn't be to exclude other people that feminists embrace. No one asked me what I was treated like as a child before deciding I was worth talking to on IBTP. This standard is brand fucking new, and unless some scale is created to measure how much of a say we all get based on how much sexism we experienced as children I find the entire thing to be really useless. Transwomen experience sexism right now- that matters a lot to me. It seems as though that should be the primary consideration when inviting or silencing others in a conversation about feminism. I do not see a reason why the experiences of transwomen cannot be seen as a variety of female experience the way that other intersections of privilege and sex discrimination are.

44 comments:

  1. I, too, am disturbed by the trans*gender/sexual hate often present on rad-fem and rad-fem leaning blogs. However...

    I do appreciate a more in-depth and critical examination of the concepts of trans*gender/sexual and "cisgender" than is commonly going on in the more mainstream feminist circles. Too much biological determinism means that I just can't get behind these concepts as generally presented. I am not trans, nor am I cis, and frankly, that seems to really tick some feminists off. A LOT.

    So far IBTP is my favorite source of trans*gender/sexual analysis but I'd love to find someone who is exploring this from some different angles. I don't hate but I'm not exactly buying what many feminists are laying down about female assigned at birth individuals, if you know what I mean.

    - Ayla

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  2. I think Radical feminists are upset because transgendered individuals act out gender stereotypes. Feminists don't think gender stereotypes are true in actuality but are made true socially. If you think a small group of people are acting out the worst of these female stereotypes then of course you are not going to be happy about it.

    Either gender confusion is becoming more prevalent, perhaps due to environmental degradation, or it's just talked about more.

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  3. "women won't accept transwomen as authentic women."

    Do they have to? I don't, but I don't really care about gender roles. Sure, I have some assumptions about norms which have been enculturated into me, but on an intellectual level I can recognize that they're bunk and I can overcome that. What you wrote about "transabled" people helps me understand what it actually means to be transgender, but that doesn't mean to me that I ought to be required to refer an XY person as "her".

    I confess to feeling uncomfortable around obviously biologically male people who are putting on the female performance, as it were. That's something I have to confront until I can respond to them as I would any other human being. I do think that they are acting strange by choosing one of two roles, when it makes more sense to reject those roles altogether, but I guess I have to concede that they are acting no more strange than the vast majority of the rest of us who are still choosing one of the two basic archetypes.

    Pardon me for thinking out loud. I'm interested in any reactions to my comments. I'm a person who can change his or her mind. =p

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  4. I agree that a lot of the problem boils down to not accepting people as authentically *what they identify as*.
    The 'best' explanation (nb:not excuse) I've heard for the problem some feminists have, is that when you think of 'trans' as a choice (or simply recognize that most people *do* view it as a choice), it seems to be a choice that undermines someone else's choice to be a feminist.

    That is, the idea that there are men *choosing* to be women is sometimes actually pointed to as evidence that women have advantages too, and like, the oppression doesn't all go one way, and blahblahblah (all that stuff with a kernal of truth and a profound obliviousness to *scale of problems* men and women face).

    @Michael Cooper- I can't presume to speak for you, but most of the people I know who feel 'uncomfortable' around any given gender identity are that way because a large part of their behavior toward others is determined by the person's gender. In other words, maybe you have a set of default assumptions and behavioral pre-programmed settings that make social interactions less energy/thought/emotion consuming. In which case, trans people (or indeed, any non gendernormative person) require more effort to interact with.
    Given the frequency with which I hear this comment made about non-heterosexual individuals, I'm inclined to think that the easiest cure for this is just openminded exposure to a variety of people. Even if your problem is something else entirely, that would be unlikely to hurt.

    Sidenote: I feel the term "meta" "para" and "ortho" gendered should come into the general parlance. /O-Chem dork

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  5. I think that's a pretty good observation, Becca (the part that was directed at me) and I think it's likely to be true about me. I hadn't thought of that. I'm autistic, fwiw.

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  6. @Michael Cooper

    I don't feel that I ought to be required to refer to you by your given name, so instead, I will refer to you as "shithead". Please understand that this has nothing to do with my level of respect for you as an individual, but rather with my discomfort regarding your identity as a person who is uncomfortable with transgender people.

    But of course, I won't actually do that, because to do that would be assholish. I suppose if you would rather be addressed as "Michael" I'll have to go along with that. But I don't have to like it!

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  7. I can choose my name. I can't choose my genes. I think words have meanings and it matters. When I say "her", I don't mean "person who is conforming to norms which society applies to people who identify as female"; I mean "person who ostensibly possesses two sets of X chromosomes".

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  8. If you would read carefully without prejudging, I think you could see that I was merely being candid about what it is my impulse to feel, but then dismissing that discomfort as being *not valid*. I don't think that I can overcome my prejudice if I don't acknowledge it.

    I never said that "I don't have to like" calling a mtf trans "her". I am just trying to sort things out.

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  9. @Michael

    My point was that it sucks being called something you consider obnoxious* for no other reason than the comfort of the person who is addressing you. You seem to have gotten that point.

    Do you karyotype every person you meet before referring to them as "he" or "she"? No? Then clearly you are not referring to chromosomes when you choose a gendered pronoun to use for someone.

    *Caveat: I don't have any clue what it's like to be misgendered as a trans person, only as myself.

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  10. skeptifem - I have read this blog post again carefully and decided that in light of the discrimination and violence trans people face, it would be the least I could do to call them whatever I want. I'm not saying this because I want a pat on the back. I just wanted to let you know you influenced me and changed my mind.

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  11. Michael Cooper- Haha I was just about to talk about that. Good on you.

    What sucks is that a lot of doctors haven't gotten that yet, despite knowing that the health of the trans population is all screwed up because of that discrimination. Lets hope more people figure it out.

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  12. Oops, I said "whatever I want" but I think it's clear I meant "whatever THEY want". Still, hate making errors like that.

    Well, I'll do my part. All it takes to make a difference is clear speaking when someone broaches the topic. Cutting through that fuzzy thinking and getting to the heart of the matter.

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  13. I have always refused to even discuss this issue (and will hold to that), but I often wonder why so many radical feminists spend so much time on this. I mean, I can understand the objection to what some feminists see as a caricatured version of socially-imposed "femininity" and I know that the idea that biology has to match with a gender role is anathema to radical feminism, but I am quite often disappointed with how hostile some of the language I hear being tossed around on both sides is.

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  14. Liberality: "I think Radical feminists are upset because transgendered individuals act out gender stereotypes."

    Fuck you and your piss-poor understanding of trans peoples' lives. This fairly butch tryke is fed up with these shitty stereotypes about trans people all being caricature-like gender conformists. Ironically, one contributing factor to this stereotype is the very way trans women were historically treated by the medical establishment; in the 60s-70s, doctors who controlled our access to hormones and other medical treatment would automatically reject any applicants not appearing and acting like a Barbie doll. Showing up to the doctor or psych's office in anything other than full makeup, blouse, skirt, hose, and heels - no access. Any accounts or actions that didn't support the doc's narrow and stereotypical theory of what it meant to be / feel 'like a woman' - no access. Anything but 100% heterosexuality - no access. People had to compare notes and learn what to tell doctors, what show they'd have to put on, or get barred entirely from the medical field. Every facet of gendered expression was strictly policed by patriarchal authority, and then 'radicals' attack that outdated, fake stereotype. It's sickening.

    Trans women get hit with a patriarchal catch-22: if we act in any way deemed 'feminine,' we're caricatures reifying gender roles; if we act in any way 'masculine,' it's a sign of our 'male energy' and that we're REALLY men (a charge probably about to be leveled at me, for daring to be uppity). I've been hit with both, in some cases even by the SAME PERSON on different occasions. It's a complete double standard: these same people will support the exact same actions from a cis woman - as well they should - but force the actions of a trans woman into this fucked-up narrative.

    It fully depends on reading all actions by trans people through the underlying assumption that trans women (and trans men, for that matter), have no legitimate claim to their genders; cis people, rather, are the gatekeepers of TRUE womanhood/manhood and the arbiters of who qualifies. Even in skeptifem's OP, which is generally very good at avoiding this problem, that assumption slips in: "All of them boil down to the same thing- women won't accept transwomen as authentic women."
    'Woman,' unmarked, is taken for granted to refer to all cis women and ONLY cis women.

    (Sorry to focus so much on that one phrase, skeptifem; again, I liked your piece as a whole. I just wanted to show how pervasive these assumptions are, even among allies who do 'get it' and are working hard at it.)

    rageagainstthemanchine: "[...]but I am quite often disappointed with how hostile some of the language I hear being tossed around on both sides is."

    Really. Your concern regarding how we fight back against our oppression is noted. Thanks, btw, for lumping us in with people who want a 'Final Solution' to the transsexual problem (Mary Daly, Gyn/ecology pg. 67), that's a totally merited and just comparison.

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  15. Liberality: "I think Radical feminists are upset because transgendered individuals act out gender stereotypes."

    Fuck you and your piss-poor understanding of trans peoples' lives. This fairly butch tryke is pretty fed up with these shitty stereotypes about trans people all being caricature-like gender conformists. Ironically, one contributing factor to this stereotype is the very way trans women were historically treated by the medical establishment; in the past, trans womens' access to medical care was rigidly controlled and limited only to those who would say exactly what the 'doctors' wanted to hear. Then 'radicals' use the stereotype perpetuated by that very same patriarchal perversion of our lives and narratives to condemn us. Sickening.

    Trans women get hit with a patriarchal catch-22: if we act in any way deemed 'feminine,' we're caricatures reifying gender roles; if we act in any way 'masculine,' it's a sign of our 'male energy' and that we're REALLY men (a charge probably about to be leveled at me, for daring to be uppity). I've been hit with both, in some cases even by the SAME PERSON on different occasions. It's a complete double standard: these same people will support the exact same actions from a cis woman - as well they should - but force the actions of a trans woman into this fucked-up narrative.

    It fully depends on reading all actions by trans people through the underlying assumption that trans women (and trans men, for that matter), have no legitimate claim to their genders; cis people, rather, are the gatekeepers of TRUE womanhood/manhood and the arbiters of who qualifies. Even in skeptifem's OP, which is generally very good at avoiding this problem, that assumption slips in: "All of them boil down to the same thing- women won't accept transwomen as authentic women."
    'Woman,' unmarked, is taken for granted to refer to all cis women and ONLY cis women.

    (Sorry to focus so much on that one phrase, skeptifem; again, I liked your piece as a whole. I just wanted to show how pervasive these assumptions are, even among allies who do 'get it' and are working hard at it.)

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  16. [Sorry for the double post; it was too long for just one.]
    Thank you, Nepenthe! He'd get quite the surprise if he actually did karyotype people before using a gendered pronoun. About 1% of the population has sex chromosomes that are 'opposite' than those which 'match' their birth genitals; unless you've actually been karyotyped, you'll never know.

    It's not chromosomes, it's not anatomy, it's not anything but buying in to the patriarchal concept of oppositional sexism; with 'woman' and 'man' as binary, fully opposite, immutable categories.

    And thanks, skeptifem, for bringing this up - though honestly, there are a lot of feminist blogs out there that are actually quite good at providing a trans-friendly atmosphere! Hell, Feministe is far, far better on trans issues than it is on many other topics. Tiger Beatdown only rarely touches on trans stuff, but is good when it does. I will admit that I tend to avoid the radfem blogosphere, though, due to the extreme historical prevalence of trans hate, so there's a lot of selection bias involved there.

    rageagainstthemanchine: "[...]but I am quite often disappointed with how hostile some of the language I hear being tossed around on both sides is."

    Your concern regarding how we fight back against our oppression is noted. Thanks, btw, for lumping us in with people who want a 'Final Solution' to the transsexual problem (Mary Daly, Gyn/ecology pg. 67), that's a totally merited and just comparison.

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  17. Just a minor quibble, since both responders appear to have missed it: I did use the qualifier "ostensibly", intended to convey that 1) I base it (don't we all?) on appearance, and than 2) I acknowledge appearances can be deceiving. I.e. both responses about the he/she and chromosomes issue were laboriously telling me something I already indicated that I know.

    And I hope you notice that I said this in the process of coming around. We agree that so much of the problem of sexism is that it's taught to us, rather than that we're born with it, correct? And so then, I think, we agree that an important component of the problem is a human tendency to rely too much on authority, rather than examining ideas critically?

    I am a feminist, yet I still have a lot of sexist ideas, as I keep discovering. I am trying to reason my way to being more humanist and feminist (I see the latter as being completely necessary for the former). It's not the easiest process in the world, but I hope that as [radical?] feminists, you value people who want to find their way to your point of view through critical analysis rather than instant unquestioning acceptance of the ideas you espouse, since the latter epistemology is part of the problem in the first place.

    I may some things that are offensive or downright stupid in the process. So be it. All I can say is that I care and I'm trying to learn. I appreciate being included in the conversation.

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  18. @Michael

    I noticed your qualifier. My point was that the gender a person identifies as is not an "ostensible" representation of their chromosomes at all.

    Honestly, I wouldn't mind if people would instantly and unquestioningly accept the basic ideas of feminism. While we wait for the world at large to examine the merits of the idea "Women are human in the same way men are human", women suffer. Patriarchal ideas are accepted without question; if I could wave a wand and switch those to feminist ideas, that would make the world a place with less suffering. We can work on critical thinking and epistemology when dead hooker jokes are as divorced from reality as dead baby jokes.

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  19. I have been on the hunt for more feminist blogs to read during the past month or so, and outside of Rage Against The Manchine every blog I come across has some transphobic shit in it.

    Shakesville doesn't allow transphobic shit.

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  20. Thanks SKM. I shall look into it.

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  21. I understand, nepenthe. I guess an analogous statement might be if you categorically condemned child rape by priests and were huffy that I wanted to discuss it a bit first, saying that I want people to come to oppose it through critical thinking, when clearly it should be more widely triggering automatic outrage. Point taken.

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  22. I think a lot of it is also a fear of having "gender" on the brain. ignorance of how the brain works could make some feminists feel that admitting that trans people are that way by birth rather than choice would mean that the brain does do gender, which is a belief feminists have fought since forever; and nevermind that the parts that create a body-image are far different and far older than the parts responsive for cognitive skills. The brain isn't a monolithic mass of grey goo, after all.
    The other part, the "trans people conform to gender stereotypes" has multiple sides as well. some of them really do, voluntarily: partially simply because things coded as the opposite sex appeal to them; partially because trans people are ALSO steeped in the sexist culture, and therefore are just as susceptible to the gender-role messages as the rest of the population.
    Some of them conform against their will because in the US it's near impossible to get gender reassignment surgery unless you've "lived as the other gender" for an extended period of time, which most doctors interpret to mean performing the relevant gender role.
    And some of them don't conform, and get all the troubles and shit for it that dymara described above.

    For anyone interested, some science on gender identity and the brain:

    http://www.ingentaconnect.com/content/imp/jcs/2008/00000015/00000001/art00001

    http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v378/n6552/abs/378068a0.html

    http://jcem.endojournals.org/cgi/content/full/85/5/2034

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  23. Dymara - I wasn't lumping anyone in with anyone. I was referring to the several times I've seen misogynistic language being used against radical feminists, and to the many instances in which I've recoiled at the language some radical feminists use to discuss this issue.

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  24. This is just a personal anecdote so take it for what it is worth, but I don't know a single trans woman including myself who feels a connection with the LGBT.

    It's not about who is a woman and who isn't. Trans women are *a different kind* of woman apart from those who were born female. As such, there is very little cis-women can offer us because we really don't have much in common.

    I wish y'all would just leave us alone, stop talking and debating about us and go fight your own fights. We don't need you up in our sh*t honestly.

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  25. I know I'm coming late to the party, but here are my thoughts on trans-positive blogs.

    I like Questioning Transphobia: http://www.questioningtransphobia.com/

    Taking Steps is an awesome blog written by a trans woman: http://takingsteps.blogspot.com/ It's not really "Trans 101" kinda stuff, but I really dig her writing. Alas, it's not updated too often.

    I'd say transphobia is pretty much epidemic in the feminst blogosphere. It pisses me off and makes me sad. I try to call other cissies out when I see them being transphobic, and I pay attention when transpeople tell me that my cisprivilege is showing.

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  26. "I think Radical feminists are upset because transgendered individuals act out gender stereotypes."

    I think SOME radical feminists are upset because a tiny yet visible minority of transgendered individuals act out gender stereotypes, just as a tiny yet visible minority of cisgendered individuals do too, and they make the assumption that the whole group is the same as these few individuals.

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  27. "I can't choose my genes."

    None of us can. See http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/7689007.stm for a good example of how genes can affect some people.

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  28. The only 'reason' I can think of for a feminist who knows perfectly well what oppression is to blithely play the "transwomen are men" card is a total lack of understanding that SEX is not the same thing as GENDER. And thus they're unable to separate the two in their mind and are suspicious of anyone with a male body regardless of gender identity. It's still wrong of them, of course, but I can sort of see *why* they feel that way.

    It's a distinction that makes perfect sense to me, female-bodied but genderqueer, but perhaps it isn't immediately apparent to cis-gendered people who are only used to experiencing oppression based on their sex or race or any other demographic apart from gender.

    The solution to transphobia among feminists is more education on the issues, and excellent blog posts like this are huge steps forward in that regard. Thanks, Skeptifem.

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  29. Nails, apparently Twisty got the Andrea Dworkin link from you... that was MY post, not Renee's. I am pretty upset that I have received no attribution and no link. My repeated requests on the thread, email to Twisty and Facebook request at IBTP (as well as Renee's request) have all been ignored. Since Twisty seems to like you, could you please inform her that I would like a correction?!? THAT WAS MY "excellent essay" -- a guest post at Renee's. Renee did not write it.

    I am credited right there in the first sentence of the post. Why did you miss it? Original post:
    http://daisysdeadair.blogspot.com/2009/08/andrea-dworkin-on-transgender.html

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  30. She attributed it to someone else (I mentioned dworkin but didn't quote her), but its been fixed on IBTP via an update. That sucks that that happened.

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  31. er, you already knew that. I didn't send twisty the link or essay though.

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  32. There isn't a one size fits all oppression of women. Where you grew up, who raised you, what race you are, how much you weigh, how much money you had, how much education you had access to, etc ALL affect the way that women experience oppression. The oppression facing white upper class academic women isn't going to be the same as the kind affecting lower class hispanic immigrant women. Its basic shit that everyone at IBTP knows about, and the intersection of privilege and oppression is often discussed there, but women aren't told to not talk about women's oppression because of how they experienced it.

    Exactly. The point should be how privilege is wielded (if it is wielded) not The Oppression Olympics. Thanks for addressing this issue, Nails.

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  33. Humans participate in their own socialization. The feminist blogosphere is well aware of this when they talk about girlhood and the shortage of strong female role-models or the creepily sexualized dolls marketed to young girls. It's weird that something that's taken as a given in a discussion about how gross 'Twilight' is obtuse when talking about trans women.

    So this thing about trans women being socialized as boys is not exactly true. Part of one's identity is this deal where there are people you identify with. Who you are will dictate who you think you are like and who you want to be like. Children absorb a lot of socialization by becoming kinda fixated on certain people and emulating them. In general, girls will emulate women and boys will emulate men.

    When trans women are children, they are treated as boys are treated, but they are focused as little girls are focused. A little trans girl looks like a little boy, sure, but she probably identifies with, wants to grow up to be like, and subconsciously imitates women, not men. The male socialization and privilege stuff didn't fully take.

    I am not saying that trans women haven't experienced male privilege (as part of passing privilege when they appeared to be men) or that they haven't been socialized as male. Anybody who looks male gets male privilege, and there are a great many gender socialization things that you just can't ignore even if you spend the whole time not really paying attention 'cause you're watching the other 'team.' But trans women are surely not socialized as men the way men are, because they were fakin' it the whole time.

    Trans people often have a good laugh over our utter failure to be properly socialized as the gender we were assigned at birth. I am a trans man, I transitioned in my early thirties and there are a whole lot of things about being a woman that I just don't get. I was asleep in class that day. And in the same way, I absorbed male socialization because I was constantly trying to horn in on it, or watching it intently. I was never any good at acting like a woman (and I don't mean the dumb submissive whatever bits) and except for public restroom behaviors, I didn't have to learn (well, not as an adult) how to act like a man.

    I do believe that gender is in the brain, but not in the way that's offensive. My brain expected my body to be a certain way, and I was completely unhinged by the mismatch. And my brain looked to people with a certain type of body for social cues about who I ought to be. I expect if I'd been born in a nation of women warriors and men flower-arrangers, I'd be arranging flowers.

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  34. G has it right.

    Some data, without comment.

    "PATIENTS: A 46,XY mother who developed as a normal woman underwent spontaneous puberty, reached menarche, menstruated regularly, experienced two unassisted pregnancies, and gave birth to a 46,XY daughter with complete gonadal dysgenesis. -- J Clin Endocrinol Metab. 2008 Jan;93(1):182-9"

    "In early 2009 I was finally given my assessment for suitability to go on the waiting list for sex reassignment surgery. Yes, that’s right, I would be assessed as to whether or not I was suitable to wait in line for further assessment.
    ...
    I wear black. I like wearing black. I was told that women do not wear black....The woman doing the assessment was wearing black. Nothing but black. She told me that women wear bright colours. Pink was the only colour she could name.

    The psychologist actually assumed I had short hair – either she was blind, or stupid – and said that women have long hair. On having it pointed out to her that I have long hair, and was wearing it tied back due to the wind, she said that women never wear their hair like that. She certainly didn’t, since her hair was about an inch long...

    I was wearing a skirt. It’s hard to miss this on anyone, more so when someone is sitting cross-legged. She assumed I was wearing trousers. In her strange view of the world, women never wear trousers: they only wear skirts – and not long skirts, not even when it’s cold out. They wear short skirts. Knee length is still a long skirt. Mid-thigh is apparently the universal dress code for women. Unless they wear dresses, of course. No woman ever wears trousers. I’m sure the astute reader will see where this is going… Yes, she was wearing trousers.

    The ever more ridiculous and outdated stereotypes continued: Women all wear make-up. But not subtle make-up. They trowel it on, so that it is clearly visible. It must be noticeable, or they’re not wearing make-up. No, she wasn’t wearing make-up either. I personally don’t. I’m very poor and could not afford any make-up if I wanted to wear it. Since I was raised by parents who were both feminist enough to think that make-up is something that women are not required or expected to do, I certainly don’t feel any pressure to bother. But the notion that maybe it’s sexist to require women to wear make-up was flatly disavowed by the psychologist. She said that all women wear the stuff, all the time. Except her, of course.

    Then there was my lack of high heels. You see, all women wear high heels (except for certain psychologists)....I was told I should wear high heels. Even though I often cannot find any that actually fit.

    On hearing that I’m attracted exclusively to women (there was a flat demand to know my sexual orientation) she said that only men are attracted to women. I asked her if she had not heard the term lesbian. She repeated what she said, so I think the answer was “no”. I guess lesbians are just too cutting edge."


    That was in New Zealand, in 2009, not the "60s and 70s".

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  35. Christy Martin wrote:
    Trans women are *a different kind* of woman apart from those who were born female. As such, there is very little cis-women can offer us because we really don't have much in common.

    I don't agree, and that's not been my experience. "Different kind of woman" yes. Biologically, I'm more different than most, Trans women are positively mundane compared to my metabolic oddities.

    But I learn a lot from mingling with my peers, the other female academics and members of "Women in Technology and Communication" at the Australian National University.

    We're a minority in Engineering, only 8%. We stick together for mutual support in what can be a very hostile environment.

    A few know my background. Many don't. Quite a few do, having seen me appear on a nationally televised program on Intersex, but don't connect "Zoe" with "Zoe Brain, Intersex Activist". Not that it matters, the similarities we share as Geek Girls in an embarrassingly male-dominated profession outweigh such minor details.

    When I joined, it felt like coming home at last. None of my friends were technically inclined, there was always a gap there. But here I found peers who thought just like me, had the same values, emotions, feelings... for the first time in my life I was in my element. It was an overwhelming experience.

    I must be careful about universalising based on one data point (me). But women are women, cis-, trans-, whatever (inasmuch as a binary model makes any sense).

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  36. Thanks for your posts Zoe Brain. You are brave to share your story and will make it easier for others in the future.

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  37. "PATIENTS: A 46,XY mother who developed as a normal woman underwent spontaneous puberty, reached menarche, menstruated regularly, experienced two unassisted pregnancies, and gave birth to a 46,XY daughter with complete gonadal dysgenesis. -- J Clin Endocrinol Metab. 2008 Jan;93(1):182-9"

    Amazing, I never had an idea that a few intersex (AIS) people could reproduce (at least, that's the idea I get from the title, I'll go study-hunting soon)! Thanks a bunch for posting this here, Zoe!

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  38. Re: Christy Martin

    Trans people, like cis people, have a nasty habit of analyzing trans people's identities and declaring them valid or invalid.

    Trans people who identify off the binary will say that trans people who identify strongly as men and women are internalizing the oppression of the binary and won't let ourselves accept our non-binary trans identities.

    In the meantime, trans people who identify on the binary will say that people who have both/none/mostly gender identities are not accepting their own need and desire to be the 'other' sex from the one they were assigned at birth.

    This kinda crap seems to be going away gradually, but this patronizing mean "it's a phase," rubbish still sounds off pretty regularly.

    Anyway. Some trans people have trans identities and may feel they've got little in common with cis people.

    Others, like me, don't so much identify as trans but feel it's something that happened to them, and a undesirable something at that. I find that trans people are pretty much like other people, in that I don't relate to them very well at all. And my trans experience and someone else's may be quite different -- for instance, I have a lot more in common with most cis men than I have with trans men who have strong ties to the lesbian community.

    I suspect that trans people who strongly identify as men and women and don't feel they have much of an identity as trans are less likely to write about being trans. They have a tendency to 'graduate' from the trans community after transition. I have some trans friends, but I don't hang about wanting to meet other trans people, and the only reason I remain in the least active in the community is because if I don't, pre-transition folks who have strong binary identities won't have access to post-transition people with similar identities.

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  39. Were Native Americans oppressed by the English colonists?
    Pocahontas, wake up and smell the coffee!

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  40. Hi Skeptifem,

    I get tired of writing out my thoughts on this subject, but you and others can view some of there at: http://womononajourney.wordpress.com/2011/04/20/gender-happens/

    I think one thing that tires women out is the constant use of the word "transphobic." Is any criticism of the transgender movement okay? There has certainly been criticism of lesbian feminism from both inside and outside the movement.

    Medical sociology looks at the way transsexuality has evolved over time, especially with the influence of the medical establishment. Medical sociologists themselves--not feminists--have commented that M2Fs are really men who have gone through plastic surgery. There are also psychiatrists who state most M2Fs suffer from some sort of psychological problems they don't know how to treat, and surgery is the best they have to come up with now.

    Part of the idea of womyn-only space is that the oppressed group gets to set their own boundaries. Transsexuals are free to set their own bonndaries, but instead, they beat down the doors to get into the few female-only spaces still left.

    I don't see men talking with so much compassion towards transsexuals. More compassion towards everyone is a good thing, but my problem is that the T part of LGBT has taken over the lesbian and feminist struggle.

    Thank you for posting this.

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  41. Hi!
    This is a fascinating subject. I just want to say that I'm with you, Skeptifem. I've been reading a lot of radfem blogs recently, and I've been ASTONISHED at the amount of material I've encountered devoted to rejecting Trans. It's a real head-scratcher for me. I mean, Trans people are such a tiny, disenfranchised minority (as you documented in your article, Skeptifem)...it never occurred to me that some people (radicals! not godbags!) could be threatened by them. I mean, shit...I have to ask, "What did Transpeople ever do to YOU?"

    In my experience (het cisfemale), they keep to themselves. I've been politically active with Planned Parenthood and NOW in the past, and I read a lot of the feminist media. I've never heard of Trans women promoting ANYTHING in feminist orgs.
    Womononajourney--Transsexuals "beat down the doors to get into the few female-only spaces left?" REALLY? Could you provide citations/examples of this?

    To me, it sounds just like what (mostly male) het homophobes say about gay people--"I wouldn't get mad, but they're rubbing it IN MY FACE!"

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  42. Hi nails, you say "Cis women now use the gender binary against trans people in a way that reinforces misogynist ideas about what makes people female or male. Not only does it ignore that sex is a spectrum..." -- but isn't a 'no dudes' policy also using the gender (sex?) binary and ignoring that sex is a spectrum?

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  43.      "These are women who know certain things- like that gender is largely a performance in our society, and that living with violence and discrimination is a painful part of every day life for women."
         They no nothing of the kind. Men live with violence on a day-to-day basis. Women are shielded.
         "A lot of the anger from transphobic feminists is in the perception that these are men who choose to be trans somehow (I am primarily talking about mtf trans people because it is what these cis women take issue with most often)."
         Feminists hate men and don't consider them to be fully human. They are not going to change that perception on the basis of an operation. To them, you were born inferior; and that's how it's going to stay.

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